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Author Topic: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]  (Read 1132 times)

Lt_Karnage

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Hi,

I'm really not happy with how the game become. I was with the first to encourage you but now the game is so bad for me.

I have already report the combat was broken sometimes ago and stop playing it for a long period not because of the game but I have tested and report so many thing that I need a break.

Today I want to give it a try and the first mission a big animal popup throught nowhere and get kill by the three sentry I place on ground given with the mission. I absolutly do nothing in this quest, just put the turret. The animal was to though for the character and didn't last against the sentry. I have already report that poping the monster break the immersion and worst it pop right in front of us. That's so stupid.

I take a second quest, the story was interesting, tracking a possible serial killer, but suddenly six npc popup in front of me. Again why popup the enemy right near us ? And worst, they all attack me with knife and it was like a machine trying to kill me. There attack was simple and  activate when they was close enough. I could avoid the attack even against six of them but not attack back, I could not run and hit them at distance because they run too and quickly close to me to attack without any interruption. I was like a throw my character in a blender.

That was not fun, not an adventure not even action. That was stupid, boring, make me angry knowing how fun the combat was before you mess with them.

I will change my review on steam, the game become a no game for me. I will not play it again until the combat become fun again. The game was intended to be a adventure game not some rampage game.

Seriously I don't understand your purpose with this mechanism (poping enemy near us, using basic attack without any place to fight back, the only result is to force us to have overpower attack, like us a nuclear nuke to dispatch a bunch of rabbit but not to fight them as equal using skill and tactics to win).

Hoping you correct this so I will have fun again to play.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 04:06:51 AM by Dorist1 »
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mknelson

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 12:06:51 AM »

I agree with some of your points - less about combat being broken and more about balancing and some early missions being too difficult without warning.

The hideout one with the 5 attackers in particular gave me grief if I didn't run back to town and lure the attackers in.

I've noticed that there is a huge range in base attack and defence for friendly NPCs that also applies to enemies. I've seen base (no weapon) attacks around 10-20 and defences in that range too. I've also seen them up around 200.

Good luck surviving a foe with those stats regardless of their equipment until you get some serious upgrades!
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Lt_Karnage

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 10:36:57 AM »

Hi,

Maybe the balance is wrong too. But it's more about the fun to fight enemy.

I see no interest to lure them in a trap where I will do practically nothing other than watch them dying (attack with them but staying a way from the heat of the fight it isn't participate). Honestly, I don't want to run from attacker to conduct them in a point where they will not stand a chance. It can be done sometimes when it's convenient but that 's not a good thing the game relay on this tricks. This king of trick are not honorable and don't give any reward as it's pretty coward to do this.

Fighting enemy only if we deal more damage than they can give us, I mean kill them faster than they kill us, is also not fun. That is the same problem when our defense (only the one which reduce the hit) is higher than there damage. Not fun, no a true fight, boring.

Before the update which broken the combat, we could avoid attack and fight back, the combat was dynamic. If you played well you could defeat enemy with better stat than you, even if there were more than you. Of course, if the difference was too high, you only chance was to flee and come better prepared. But the combat was fun and the reward to kill three devil dog with a wooden sword was a real fight, with skill and danger.

Now the enemy attack without any consideration for stamina, defense, strat. They just attack until someone loose (and they lose, I defeat the six of them but it was a boring fight, I just win because I manage to get out of reach, using heal potion and go back until they are all down. That was the worst fight I ever had all from all game I have played, I was so angry that I continue until they was down not to defeat them but just because I use them to evacuate my anger. And after I defeat them I quit the game without saving because that was so horrible).

I know you can build vehicule with weapon, and some build mobile fortress. But that is a choice to use overpower to fight, that choice make the game totally different. But I support it because it was attended to be an explorer game, an adventure game, not some steroid-action game. So the game should not relay of the possibility to build fortress to be enjoyable.

There could be have also another problem, sometime ago I tested the game again to see progress and report again bug I could found. And a quest was poping right over me one of the giant robot. At this time of the game, I was near the beginning (I think I was with Iron set). The game have not taken into account the level. This is two problems, the worst : poping enemy near us is silly, break immersion, it's like the dev want to punish us to play there game. And the level or number of enemy without taking our level and follower make the encounter a bad decision. It' like they tell us you have taking a quest, you will regret this decision. Seriously, I real so this kind of event like the dev punishing me to play the game. Even if I manage to kill the enemy (which I also do with the giant robot), the event was really not fun, but boring (I don't see any fun to run and fight back quickly before run again in the entire map)

I really hope the combat are corrected : no more poping enemy on your face and interesting combat not just stupid, horrible, boring thing.

For now and until I see better combat, my review on steam will be negative.

FIY : I bought the pack with two key under the kickstarter campaign, and buyed four time to gift my friends too. None of them play it, they don't see any fun to the game (and they are heavy player of minecraft so there is really something broken in your game).
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Luminaire

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 04:10:09 PM »

I definately agree, in regards to this first mission and the ambushers..
I did this mission about a week ago, and while as an advanced player, it was actually enjoyable, spending 15 minutes reviving once, and using heals, I didn't have much of an issue with it. But that's from being an experienced player... Rolling, dodging, finding openings to attack. I did not have to lure them away, or place any turrets. It's doable, but likely only for experienced players, and that's just not good.

It -can- be enjoyable once you've gotten along, but for starters, that mission is simply way too much..

As for the spawning it, it would be nice to have them spawn in at a distance and then head towards you. I'm afraid if they spawned outside the area, and required you to travel to them, they may wander off, or get killed by other things.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 04:14:59 PM by Luminaire »
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Lt_Karnage

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 09:10:41 AM »

Hi,

Do you really manage to dodge the six or at least one NPCs with knife ? Because I don't see how you can dodge them (avoid an attack and counter-attack not just ran from them).

Or it's there number which prevent me to see opening, there was six of them armed with knife ? I manage to dodge them but not to attack just after or only one hit which take me forever to kill all of them (even one of them with the wood sword was a pain in the ass). So most of the time I was attacking until my health was below danger lever, retreat, heal over the time and fight again. That was not a intelligent/skill fight just time consuming fight. It was a long fight two and boring. So maybe when they was only some of them I was too tired of it to try something else. But I really think the melee fight are broken, it's seem to much like a shoothemup not like when the game was before at his start.

But I don't see any opening in the attack. The only time I could attack safely was right before they come near me as they start to move there knife prevented me to approach if I don't want to be hit. And stopping there attack when I retreat. I don't have see some opening like I have see before the bad update. I mean some kind of opening like with the devil dog before there behavior was altered. The devil dog was attacking like this npc do with there knife but if we put some distance the devil dog was using another attack which was a jump on you. If you manage to avoid it, you can them attack back as the devil dog was like stun for some second. So it was possible to fight three devil dog using dodging and evasive move and attack when they were stun. The combat was challenging and fun. Now the combat are boring :(

I really hope Pathea will do something to bring back the fun of the fight.
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Luminaire

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 12:28:52 AM »

In this fight, I didn't dodge all their attacks. Dodging to the side, and immidiately attacking them from behind, or the side, would buy you a few hits before they could hit you again, but that was provided you could keep yourself out of being dog-piled.. It took some running around, and you'd definately get hit from time to time. Sometimes, if i was in melee with one of them, i would just continue my combo while being hit myself by them, only retreating once another enemy got into range to attack me.

There isn't a way to really dodge all attacks. You will take damage, but it is possible to gain small advantages with positioning yourself, both around your current opponent, along with keeping yourself out in the open, away from all the others.. Hit the closest, dodge away, circle around, attack a straggler. Rinse and repeat, while healing, and it's doable.
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BKCXb

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 01:20:00 AM »

the problem is pathea doesn't have all the collision and hit detection boxes tuned for the combat system .......... they let you trigger a second animation while still stuck in the first animation so you get stuck in animation loops with no way to cancel out....... blocking with a shield does nothing(or too little it's hard to notice anything happening there, personally I don't think blocking was ever integrated with the new combat system at all, still needs more test to confirm)  which leaves dodge rolling as your only major defense...............

a few problems I see with rolling.........

I personally find the double tap window about 20 milliseconds to tight causing alot of missed rolls taking most of the skill out of it and adding in a huge bit of luck into the system(not very good for what should be the backbone of the game)

next all the creatures attacks are quicker than most of the players animations , one on one the system seem passable, but get more than one enemy and the whole system falls flat on its face.........dodge one attack, get hit by another the second you get up, no point in a skilled dodge if you get hit during it or while stuck in animations.........

next almost all enemies do non-directional area of effect damage (usually the last resort for developers who don't know how to do proper attacks) , with an invisible to the player radius , which i found in testing to almost 100% of the time to be larger than the distance the player rolls anyway.......... so its like a invisible pit of gasoline on fire and your just rolling into it...... no point.........no skill option...........

next the enemies get to stun lock  and rag doll the player, but the players longer animations and longer control times(compared to your 3 Ghz + hardware controlling the enemies)fights pretty much are one sided , you take all the disadvantages, they get all the benefits......... your stuck in animation loops without control of your character, get hit without control of your character, get a small window off control to dodge roll out, only to get hit during or at the end of the roll animation , but the enemies get 3Ghz + of hardware perfect controlled scripting and complete immunity to AOE damage(player can't even apply AOE) and rag dolling (except when they die)and stun locks(these can apply but long animations keeps the player from continuously applying these like the enemies can to you)

last the dodge roll seems to have none of the invincible frames present in the action combat systems that pathea seem to want to be (or should be)coping and that the game dearly needs.......... the way that it is now, I think the whole roll, except the very beginning needs to be invincible to compensate the player for all the negatives the current system burdens the player with until they sort the combat system out(if ever)..........
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Lt_Karnage

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 04:49:20 PM »

Hi,

The shield against multiple enemy was useless so I don't even try it again. The dodge make you rolling far away from the enemy which is good and bad. Good : you can avoid some hit, bad you can hit back.

I really want someone from Pathea Team explain us how they see the combat ? With a video to show us. Because I don't understand the point.

I want to play to the game but the horrible previous experience of the combat prevent me to do it. The first combat was boring, I just put the sentry and that was done, the second was painfull and annoying. That ruined the game.
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Dorist1

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 06:12:56 AM »

The reason why shield seems of no use when facing multiple monsters is that too many monsters attack at the same time will lead to attack damage offset in vain. It's not because the defence is out of work.
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Iron Newt

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2017, 10:56:48 AM »

the problem is pathea doesn't have all the collision and hit detection boxes tuned for the combat system .......... they let you trigger a second animation while still stuck in the first animation so you get stuck in animation loops with no way to cancel out....... blocking with a shield does nothing(or too little it's hard to notice anything happening there, personally I don't think blocking was ever integrated with the new combat system at all, still needs more test to confirm)  which leaves dodge rolling as your only major defense...............
I've developed a combat method which gets around this, though it doesn't work early in the game as it requires followers. I carry daggers, pref silver, and a gun, pref sniper rifle, give one follower the best bow I have and another one a gun, pref assault rifle. The great thing with the daggers is that if I don't have targeted attacking turned on I damage multiple attackers in one animation.

As for the mechanics of how this works, most of the time I run around with my daggers drawn allowing for a quick attack if I've missed something. However, my followers will tend to mop up the dangers before they get to me. Also my followers tend to draw at takers to them, this gives me plenty of time to take out my gun and snipe the attacker. If I get mobbed then my followers will tend to take out the stragglers but my fast daggers will allow for delivery of significant damage without me taking too much my self. If my followers are getting mobbed then I can rush in with my daggers. At extreme range I take my time I snipe my target leaving my followers to finish them of if my gun doesn't.
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Lt_Karnage

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2017, 05:46:57 PM »

Hi,

@Dorist1 your answer is really too short, you talk about the shield. What about the whole combat system ? How do you except us to fight ?

@Iron Newt : you find a workaround of the problem.

I could also wait to build a mobile fortress and dispatch any enemy.

But I don't see any fun of doing it. And it's break the essence of the game which is exploration and adventure, at least for me and it's why I have supported the dev when the make the kickstarter campaign and after when I buy mutliple copy to give to my friends (and none of them play it).

If I was willing to play a game where we need to overpower the enemy, construct mobile fortress, I will have taken another game which do that better and supported Planet Explorer.

So I'm still curious to heard the Dev explain how they see the combat in Planet Explorer and in particular in story and adventure mode ?

Regards
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Lt_Karnage

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Re: What happen to the promising Game ??? Why combat are so wrong ?[marked]
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2017, 02:13:11 PM »

hi,

I have just tested again the game. It's seem so unfinished. The control are awkward. The whole combat thing are so bad. Franckly I don't understand how you can have put so much time in it to this result. That's very disappointing.
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