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Author Topic: Why not making an humanoid mech editor (and eventually AI humanoid droid )?  (Read 518 times)

XxIcarusxx

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While I was using the armor editor, it just strike my mind how it could be far more easy to make an humanoid shaped mech that reuse most of the player character animation and movement patterns than starting from scratch and remake all the animations.

[Keep in mind that the actual armor editor is mostly effective and could do the job for mech parts editor as well but it is actually unfriendly to use. There should be a small/resizable window in the editor in which we can place and see the whole armor set like the ingame charater armor tab. And it could be better if we could quickly switch between this window in full size and the part editor working area, so it could be far more pratical to keep proportions in mind]

The armor editor is like  that, you can cover the whole body by making parts every body parts, in a way the character could look and move like a mech. The only the thing that is a contrain is that the  human 3D model still visible. If there wasn't, you could easily imagine it.

Humanoid mechs can reproduce most of the humanoid mouvement  patterns but there is some limits and ajustments. So It could work like the player character frame, but (maybe) with larger hips and shoulders (or an ajustable option), most of the mechs are wide. In the editor each articulations/pivots could be linked by a line in place of body parts.

Restriction, ajustments, ideas:

- Compared to armor, no visible human character model visible.

- Mechs don't breathe unlike character model.

- Mechs frame is only made of virtual lines in editor,  or slim metal frame.

- Because they are resized version of armor, they could also (eventually) use resized  isos weapons and shields, so no need of making specific weapons except for design.

- They are bigger but heavier and slower than human while making actions, but because they are bigger their mouvements and each steps go more far, so they move far more quickly than humans. I think balancing the size in a way it could fit ingame is essential. Maybe the size could be chosen by the player during creation process but it will also change weight, mouvements execution speed, and deplacement  speed.

- Jump will be limited, and rolling and escape mouvements may not be able or painfully executed by the mech. You certainly have to remove exiting mouvements compared to the human model.

- If jetpack is allowed, it would not be as effective as it is for human. No tools

- It request to have a have a seat in the torso part and some other parts to make it work ( energy cells, motors maybe already existing parts found ingame).

- However humanoid mech request at least to made a specific new animation while in stanby mode (lie down, or knee on the ground).

- It will also request to change the alien mech boss comportement while it will face a tall ennemi in close combat.


I don't say it could replace the initial dev's idea of making mech legs parts, like battlemechs licence, that request to create a whole new pattern of animation, but reuse existing features seems to make things more fast and easy because devs already have already worked on most of them (frame and animations). Yes, you can.

Edit: With the idea you could make AI droids like followers that don't request food or comfort and that could be made like the Custom Armor.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 10:33:23 AM by XxIcarusxx »
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Lily

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because humaoid mechs are boring, chicken legs is the mech way to go.



but of course both kind of legs would be cool.

Also I would not say mechs are slower, why should they? their movement animation may be slower, but generally for being much bigger thy would also make longer steps ending in a similar or even higher speed. If mechs would be slower than a running human they would be a pointless tool/weapon at all. From a gameplay point of view they would end useles then. not even speaking about PvP where everyone would do drive by's with anything faster.

I just fele like I want to attach a giant saw on my mech for woodcutting. like those giant machines do.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 04:52:07 PM by Lily »
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XxIcarusxx

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If you think about humanoid mechs only by the leg parts, sure they are boring. My suggestion is more like a giant version of the custom armor. More manoeuvrable and adaptable than a humanoid mechs in mechwarrior for exemple. When you watch movies or anime, humanoid mechs and reversed legs mechs don't have the same abilities but they are all usefull.

Specifically reversed legs mechs have firepower and armor while humanoid are multipurposes.

Also I would not say mechs are slower, why should they? their movement animation may be slower, but generally for being much bigger thy would also make longer steps ending in a similar or even higher speed. If mechs would be slower than a running human they would be a pointless tool/weapon at all. From a gameplay point of view they would end useles then. not even speaking about PvP where everyone would do drive by's with anything faster.

It seems it was what I was trying to explain but I surely failed my translation :p

I just suggested humanoid mechs because devs have already most of their animations.

Lily

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See, thats my issue, most anime mechas are horrible, as in newton would cry horrible.

They are heavily unrealistic basic phiyscs violating cartoons. They are indeed a bad base to create on because of this.
Medhwarrior mechs, as the ones in the games already differ a lot from the mechs of the battletech lore. The mechwarrior mechs are a stompy robot simulator as much as one can control it with M+KB. But int he lore these emchs can also crouch and climb and raise arms and a lot more human behaviors.

The reaosn why you cannot take the existing animations is simply the scale. unless the emchs aren't on a size of the Puja/Paja, you still need own animations. On that kin of scale movement just is different due to how physics work. But estimated 99,9% of the anime mecha genre just ignore that. Inertness, gravity and friction all behave entirely different on those scales to make the usage of human sized animations just create them unrealistic. And when you compare how much physical realism the devs tried to implement into the other vehicle editors, just copy pasta these animations would feel like hrowing that all aboard just to quickly and dirty implement mechs.
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XxIcarusxx

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Well, much more ajustments than I was thinking for making something realistic.

I watched quickly the new mechwarrior online and noticed that there is much more humanoid mechs than reverssed legs mechs for unknow reason. Also some of these models are seriously inspired from anime mechs but with gameplay adapted to this simulator.

I'm not sure what to think anymore,  while I find the mech simulation boring and outdated, the anime mechs are too much unrealistic, so you are right on this point.

The custom armor system is interesting but a little bit to much time-consuming and if they had mech legs parts, I suppose we could only build the upper part of the mech.

Well, I'll don't care how they could be animated, only the design posibilities you could give to them could be interesting.

Lily

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Well, much more ajustments than I was thinking for making something realistic.

I watched quickly the new mechwarrior online and noticed that there is much more humanoid mechs than reverssed legs mechs for unknow reason. Also some of these models are seriously inspired from anime mechs but with gameplay adapted to this simulator.

I'm not sure what to think anymore,  while I find the mech simulation boring and outdated, the anime mechs are too much unrealistic, so you are right on this point.

The custom armor system is interesting but a little bit to much time-consuming and if they had mech legs parts, I suppose we could only build the upper part of the mech.

Well, I'll don't care how they could be animated, only the design posibilities you could give to them could be interesting.

MWO's mechs are based on those of the lore, the early ones were mostly designed were mostly done on the early mecha genre, mostly macross. Later they introduced mechs with the chicken legs, thats why you find quite some more humanoid ones in MWO, as it's current timeline has mostly clanemchs with the chicken legs. Newer deisgnes even go a bot more crazy with some aeromech deisgns. Battletech lore is quite old (25yeras) now.
A mech simulation willprobably never be possible with our current controls for PC's/consoles as this involves a lot more than we currently even cna slap and properly control via our up to date input devices. Thats why such games either go the usual "shooter in robot skins" way as hawken, armored core and co does, or the a lot more simulation one MWO has. Both ways are just very abstract ways of using the mechs. I mean think about it, even in regular shooters like RB6 or CS, climbing and stuff doesn't even exists. Now with the very complex controls of mechs this would be even less possible.
Games and their controls are just very limited in what they can do.

MWO just stayed the way Mechwarrior was desigend and all in all except graphics hardly anythign changed even compred to MW1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLraqWuMHk
Design wise all that we need in PE is maybe or 3 different kind of legs and some placaeblae wepons/turrets who can aim on limited angles (unlike those of aircrafts). that way only the legs animation will matter and the rest is purely up to the voxel palcement. But they need some proper implemention of physics such as not beign able to go 0-->100 and reverse as this wouldn't work on a multi ton veihicle at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7w88yQVlVY

the amount of surface on tank rails on the ground are rather big and it even takes quite some distance for the tank to break. with smaller surface such as legs you will need a few steps to stop as you either will trip or heavily start to throw up or detsaroy part of the ground at the attemp of an instant stop. Most anime mechs behave so strange the pilots would actually die or faint from internal organ damage by the maneuvers they do :P
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:23:07 PM by Lily »
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Sozerius

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Seems like a fun idea, and ofc the game already has a 'humanoid' droid, ANDY. So it could potentially be based on that.

Ofc if the droids were just like human NPC's, then it could give you an excuse to be able to use character creation on more than your own character, which is fun. I would think that a hard limit on the number of 'human droids' you could have would be necessary for balance in this case though.
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