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Author Topic: Ore refining[marked]  (Read 1023 times)

Alu

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Ore refining[marked]
« on: August 19, 2015, 06:28:48 AM »

I think this is the most integral part this game's crafting system is missing.
So you harvest some copper with your wooden pickaxe(??) and then you can just build a copper pickaxe? By hand? Like playdough?
I'd love to see a crafting system with tools for crafting, an actual smelter refining ore to metal bars and so on.
This way we could slowly rise from pickaxe and metal-smithy to matter-manipulator and 3D Printer.

If you don't want to do this, please give us at least a chance to mod it in somehow.  :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 06:43:48 AM by Dorist1 »
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ukkopukumi

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Re: Ore refining
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2015, 07:35:34 AM »

The things are not made by hand, but with the gadget which apparently all the survivors of the crash have. The device that can arrange matter in molecular level, and even stores matter in compact way. Or something. So no, smelters and stuff are not needed.

It does seem to have some limits, though, as some items require bigger machines to produce. (Yet the combination of those items, like flying vehicles, can seemingly be stored in the small gadget. Or something...)
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Alu

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 07:19:47 PM »

Allright I can work with that. But in this case, a crucial gadget should get much more attention in my opinion.
At the moment we hack the ground with a pickaxe... and somehow have the resources.
How did this work? Did this thing pick it up from the ground after we loosened it up with a pickaxe? Why does it need a tree to be cut down before its converting all the wood in a nanosecond?
will there be some sort of animation later?
Like, for example an animation of the cut/mined area disintegrating and being sucked in my belt or something?

Even that considered, this technology is just way out of proportion to anything else of this time. People tend to think "some time in the future= we became gods of physics" or something. What I want to say is... even making all this matter extremely 'compact'.. it doesn't remove the matter, the weight does not change if the matter is still there. Do we have teleportation tech? We still build railways, so no. Will it be teleported into an alternate dimension? Even more unlikely. Can we cancel out gravity? We still fly and hover with rotors, so no.
I'd be perfectly fine to put SOME effort into storing material, it just feels weird being able to carry a planet around if I feel like it.
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Thundercraft

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 06:43:49 AM »

I have to agree with Alu that the crafting system just doesn't seem quite right. I never did like the idea of space explorers using picks and shovels to mine resources when they have access to technology like matter manipulation and cryogenic sleep. And I especially don't like making digging tools made of very soft metals like silver and gold. At least Starbound allows players to upgrade to stuff like drills. (PE is supposed to add bulldozers and better digging tools eventually.)

The smelting suggestion would be okay in my book, though I know some would complain about it. Starbound does have matter manipulators and 3D printers (which, admittedly, is different from replicators), but it does require smelting.

Speaking of requiring machines to process raw material: I remember a suggestion in one of the threads for heat sources (for cold weather/climates) which could double for cooking our food. I thought it was a great idea to require a campfire or some device to cook with. Our replicators can not create meat from, say, dirt. So how can they turn raw meat into cooked sausages and such?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:34:09 AM by Thundercraft »
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yarnevk

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 03:12:44 PM »

ALU if you lack the creativity to guess at how we can do matterless volumeless storage go read some good sci-fi novels or TV series.   It is a staple of the genre - just like the D&D Bag of Holding is the foundation for the exact same thing that happens in most every RPG enabling your bag to put more stuffs than you can possibly carry without ever needing to question how the magic or the physics works allowing you to get on with the story.   

If you want the real answer why your bag is 'bigger on the inside' even though it is not a 'ordinary blue police box'....it is because the devs tested the game with inventory limits and found it destroyed the central part of the game which is fast building.   The fort defense construction mission that requires you to construct a fort in the next five minutes becomes a plot point that needs to be removed, along with it the entire agile defense premise of the game.

This is a sci-fi game that does not need to be bound by current or near future reality.   Complaining about that means you just as well not enjoy Star Trek reruns because everyone knows teleporters are not possible, and how could a hole in the wall make 'Tea, Earl, Grey, Hot' as well as starship parts without smelters. 

If you want to play a archaic crafting game there are plenty of games out there that force you to smelt that I can recommend.   'Ark Survival Evolved' does not have replication it has workbenches and forges.  Although I recommend multiplayer tribes because making forts is a painful grind in solo play, especially when dinos or people can destroy hundreds of hours work in minutes.   

Or go play Wurm Online where you spend IRL months skilling and farming to be a carpenter so you can spend IRL months trying to become a shipbuilder.  That game literally forces you to click for each of thousands of pegs that go in the ship along with the hammer animation you seek - although they lack animation resources so most activities just have placeholder wait  bars that are so boring to watch many people risk macro bans.  Since all this is a lot of work you can create a character and it's holdings that have real world money value which you can sell when you quit.

I play all these games so I greatly appreciate the design decision that Pathea made to not logistically burden crafting and building by using the scifi replicator and it easy storage.  I do not need a research paper on how that works, I just enjoy the game.  When games are fast for PVP/PVE destruction, then balancing the game for fast construction is what keeps people playing and not rage quitting because the game or it's players destroyed months of work.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 03:36:41 PM by yarnevk »
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Alu

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 09:03:27 AM »

Sorry for the late reply.
I'm afraid you missed my point. I don't lack the "creatitivtiy" or imagination and yes, I'm big on sci-fi novels myself ;)
What I referred to was the abscence of proportion of technological developement.
Some technologies are so futuristic, things like converting matter to any other matter would be way behind that... which would of course destroy the plot since resource scarcity iniciated this whole endeavour.
Guess what I'm saying is a common thread of where they are technologically and since its missing, it feels like they are going with "future stuff" which is not very immersive.
And I agree, limited inventory weight/space is rarely a plus to a game, I wasn't wondering about the why, more about the how and it's relation to the rest.
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Dorian_Grey

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 03:31:03 PM »

I've mentioned this in another thread, something along the same lines about storage.  But let's look at replicators for example, like in Star Trek.  They can scan a certain item or food, and then duplicate it over and over again.  So if we mine a unit of material and store it digitally, why can't we copy it and then have infinite numbers of that material?  We shouldn't have to mine 1000 units of anything, just one.  This is why there needs to be some kind of explanation or reason to how the system works.

Like the OP, we use wooden pickaxes to mine materials and make vehicles and powerplants, and then we're using stone axes to cut down trees.  Why aren't we making lazer chainsaws or something?  The balance is way off and kind of lost between super high-tech future devices and caveman tools, with no reason for each to exist other than just because.
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mknelson

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 04:52:32 PM »

At the very least you would have to have an quantity of matter to convert (or energy, but E=MC^2 is rather a lot of energy).
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yarnevk

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Re: Ore refining[marked]
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2017, 03:32:37 AM »

In reality matter is mostly empty space.   It certainly is possible for a sci-fi technology to compress it maybe even into another dimension, without converting it to energy and without any ability to copy it.  How that works is irrelevant to the story, because the limitations of collecting matter is what is driving the 4X story of the game, it says what if logistics was not a burden how different would the 4X genre be from CIV?   If they wanted to make a story about collecting energy to convert to matter they just as well could have, but that is not the story they wanted to tell.

Do you carry schematics on how to build a microwave oven around with you, do you even have any remote understanding of how it even works?   You missed the entire plot which consists of you running around to acquire schematics from people whose job it was to have them, for the sole reason that it was not your job to have such information.  The reason you have primitive tools to start is because that is all that is on the survival replicators, the entire plot is founded on this premise.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:34:13 AM by yarnevk »
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