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Author Topic: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]  (Read 5477 times)

Zifei

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Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« on: June 30, 2015, 12:09:08 AM »

As you know, we went and made the build system with 2 distinct parts now, with cubes and terrain. The controls also changed to the same as the Creation System. What are your opinions of it?

I want to add that some people have told us that they're not liking the controls, where is can get a bit more complicated compared to before when doing the more complicated things. But the basics are pretty easy click and drag (probably even easier than before since no more shift and ctrl). If you don't like the current controls, can you pinpoint exactly why?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 03:22:31 AM by Dorist1 »
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thakyZ

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 12:28:16 AM »

I love that you added the terrain along side the voxels it really helped with the digging of diagonal tunnels, but otherwise my personal opinion is that there is nothing wrong with it! Also forgot to say it was even better with the terrain that you could change the texture for it.
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Malus Tepes

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 02:58:50 AM »

Due to the way that tryign to plant the bricks in a single slot, the feather tool makes it nearly impossible to pick a specific region.  And I can not personally figure out how to turn off the feather.  In the creation mode, I don't have to worry about the feather acting up in such a way.
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pat

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 05:28:08 PM »

IMO the controls are fine except there is no way to delete more than 1 terrain voxel at a time. Will there be a smooth tool later?

The problem is what someone called ghost blocks, Malus Tepes calls it feather. It's often too much, impossible to see where the next block will be placed.
Also near the ground it's red, around other blocks it's more yellow. What should the color tell us?

PaulBlay

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 12:39:34 PM »

Shallower slopes for vehicles, please. :)

It's hard to drive vehicles up 45 degree slopes, and it makes for a very bumpy road. If we could have 26 degree* slopes, that would be wonderful. (I think 26 degree is what you get if the vertical side of the right angle triangle is twice that of the horizontal line. Maybe have two new block shapes (top half of fig) or one double-length block (bottom half of fig)

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Malus Tepes

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 03:19:18 PM »

Shallower slopes for vehicles, please. :)

It's hard to drive vehicles up 45 degree slopes, and it makes for a very bumpy road. If we could have 26 degree* slopes, that would be wonderful. (I think 26 degree is what you get if the vertical side of the right angle triangle is twice that of the horizontal line. Maybe have two new block shapes (top half of fig) or one double-length block (bottom half of fig)



The new build system allows that.
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PaulBlay

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 04:48:18 PM »

The new build system allows that.

I'd better start working out how to use it then. :)
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pat

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 05:33:25 PM »

Callisto

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 07:35:46 PM »

- The main hassle I found is the cursor (or ghostblocks/feather what others seem to be calling it) which blocks the screen and I can't see where I'm pointing or what I'm doing, may I suggest a wireframe cursor instead? Or an option would be nice.
- Also, if I remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played for a while) with the old system I could hold ALT to make the volume brush delete blocks instead of adding, which made it very easy to use.

I guess I can get used to the new system though, just those two problems, the first one is making it too difficult for me to use at the moment.
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yarnevk

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 03:51:09 PM »

Being based on the creation tool should not be part of the base game.   The creation tool is an optional tool that adds depth and complexity to the game, that never has to be used beyond downloading someones gun or car.   If someone wants to design a complex base, they can use the creation tool, although it does not make for good downloads because bases need integrated into terrain.

In that regard it should be just like Morrowinds Construction Kit, only modders ever needed to learn its complexity but everyone could enjoy the mods.

The previous building mode was simple - crtl/shift modifiers to constrain direction and alt delete has been in paint programs forever and with a proper tutorial is very easy to grasp and use.  Its only real flaw was when it went to using its own tool bar rather than using the existing toolbar mechanic, making it impractical to build and defend at the same time.

The basic building in the game should have been left simple and easy to use, the fact that many long time players are having difficulty even with a wiki tutorial indicates you have failed on that regard.  Leave the complexity to the creation tool because it is an optional part of the game.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 03:54:30 PM by yarnevk »
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BKCXb

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 08:48:35 PM »

I found with the old system being so simple, even when you added the tool bar functions, I still used the original menu and used my cursor to select the materials and the block shape manually.

With the new system nothing having a label was the biggest problem , big plus sign + little plus sign to add blocks( what does that even mean??) the second option looks like a little TV screen???????   It's pretty simple with 5 minutes of playing around and just randomly clicking stuff to figure out what is what (for someone who has over 1500 hours in the game)but for new players I think 50% of them would just choose to not use it, like the creation system, because it is too much to learn...  Playing this game without the creation system and now build mode , isn't all that impressive, its like 80% of the game.......

The creation system is the coolest thing I have ever seen in a video game ever.......I spent many frustrated hours learning how to use it, and to this day still don't know everything about it......... That's where it shines..... it can be as simple as downloading an ISO.  Some will fumble thru trying something on their own by placing one voxel at a time, and slowly learn tricks from others to speed up their creation times and piece complexity , and some will never worry about it again.... but that great its not required...

the build system isn't presented in this manner, you are learning alot of new mechanics enjoying the game than bam!!! countdown timer and a message to build a defense perimeter!!!
its not even clear how to get into build mode for a new player at this point, most run out of time before they even figure this out...  Once they do figure it out they are faced with the most complex intuitive way to build something ever.....I still cant figure how to place a single block on the ground like I used too......  ???

When you added the hot bar to the build mode, I felt it was cool to add different ways to speed up building for those who wanted to use it, but the problem was the way it was added..
the new more complex system was brought up as the default way when you entered build mode...... you had to know how to work the hot bar and assign building materials and block shapes to it before you even know how to use build mode...... I choose to go the extra step and hit the MENU button to bring up the simpler and more intuitive block shape and materials pallet, because I was faster with the simpler system due to it being less frustrating, which caused less mistakes...

I think you could take a look at modern smartphones for one simple lesson, upon booting a new smartphone, many have a few options to fit their user and how they are gonna be used. Many have an easy mode (for less tech savvy users) in the new build system this would be the old MENU style build mode(if it still exist as I love it).... All of them have a normal mode with is for most of the general public, this are harder to do but you have more control ( you will need help from others sometimes) , in the build system this would be all your new features like angles( I still haven't figured out how this works) and some phones have a pro mode, were every bit of the hardware can be tweaked and controlled by the user( the most efficient and custom use of the phone requiring the highest level of tech knowledge and savvy)

you new build mode is shipping in pro mode already applied and you are getting alot of phone returns , due to them being way to complicated to use by the general public.....

make it so that when you enter build mode the default is always the simplest mode( the materials and block shape pallet) and the more tech savvy can dive deeper by clicking the tools they want to use to do more complex stuff, not the other way around....I shouldn't have to know what everything does to bring up the simplest way to do something(defeats the point in the beginning for new users) 
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OHGuy

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 02:11:22 AM »

I cannot figure out how to delete something once it is placed in the new build system. Holding down alt no longer works... was there a change?
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ukkopukumi

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 08:22:37 AM »

the build system isn't presented in this manner, you are learning alot of new mechanics enjoying the game than bam!!! countdown timer and a message to build a defense perimeter!!!
its not even clear how to get into build mode for a new player at this point, most run out of time before they even figure this out...
Oh yes, exactly like that. (And I didn't even have enough materials to make large enough walls.) Took something like 10 minutes (after the first miserably failed fight) to figure out how to even open the build mode and how to place a block. Some more to learn how to make large flat walls quickly (instead of block by block). Took quite a while longer before I managed to remove blocks. Even after learning how, building a simplest "perimeter" was quite the task and I never managed to finish it in time. I ended up reloading couple steps earlier and built a fancy fortress beforehand and built tons of turrets... (I.e. "cheating".)
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57wiskas

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2015, 10:59:41 AM »

I'm not a fan of the new system. You can't even see what it is you are doing. It's inconvenient and a lot more hassle. thumbs down!
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PaulBlay

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Re: Let's talk about the new build system in 0.88[marked]
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2015, 11:31:49 AM »

First impressions: Confusing.
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