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Author Topic: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol[marked]  (Read 5297 times)

morse

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Laser rifle -> Laser pistol[marked]
« on: June 17, 2015, 09:41:53 PM »

So, laser rifle is now officially downgraded to laser pistol. And also to one muzzle, which is a shame, cause I had such a nice looking two-muzzled rifle.

Are you going to introduce a new laser rifle grip, or is the laser weaponry is now restricted to sidearms for good?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:10:30 AM by Dorist1 »
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gp2exe

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 10:43:15 PM »

I noticed that too, but this may actually be good thing, since I would expect that they have plans to introduce a laser rifle grip additionally at some point. There's a couple of reasons to reach this conclusion:

-Several Creation systems aren't available right now since they are still being worked on (aircraft, ship, object, etc.), some vehicle guns don't appear to work either. Thus all we could say is that they'll need more time to sort everything out to the way it was previously.

-There's some balancing being done to allow for dual-wielding pistols (it doesn't specifically mention pistols, but it is to be assumed), which would make them actually useful and able to combo with other equipment (sword+pistol and the such). Previously there was no way of making a laser pistol, now there would be a match for the bullet-based variant.

As for the muzzle reduction, bullet muzzles are restricted to one as well, could be related to the balancing too. Anyways, that's all the speculation I have, hopefully Zifei or Doris can pop in and confirm.
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Malus Tepes

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 02:39:17 PM »

What I hope they do for muzzling this is that they introduce ((For bullet guns)) an ammo case that when you load a gun, you place X ammo into.  Having more barrels allows you to shoot more rapidly ((As you use a different barrel for each shot)) but will consume ammo faster and possibly reduce accuracy.  That way multiple barrels is an option for making machine guns / gatling guns.
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JolanXBL

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 03:16:43 PM »

You mean in the test build? Because it's still a rifle in my game
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Shahadem

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2015, 07:03:48 AM »

It is still called a rifle in my game as well. And it does too little damage for the extremely slow speed.
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Zifei

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 08:36:09 AM »

We're not adding anything until we have the old stuff back in, which we're pretty much redoing since the physics system's completely different. So they're not bugs or design flaws, more like incomplete designs.
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Luminaire

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 04:53:27 PM »

I honestly don't care about the multiple barrels.. I thought it was a bit silly, and I was actually glad to see it change. Because the way it was set up, was such that it did not matter how you designed your weapon, you would be required to place as many barrels as possible, or suffer your weapon being sub-parr.

I think that if multiple barrels do return, it can be done in such a way that damage isn't increased so dramatically. There should be major reductions and drawbacks to having more barrels than simply just consuming more ammo at once, because the dps is still there, and ammo can be stacked and replaced. no big deal. That's not enough of a drawback.

I was talking to someone last night on steam, as they approached me mentioning the barrels loss, and they said they liked the idea for a design concept, and thought of a tradeoff that seemed fair. Multiple barrels instead of doing the same damage for each barrel, would divide the overall damage amogst the barrels, but there is a problem with that. Firstly. Ammo costs. People would complain about having spending 3x the ammo for 1x the damage. It was thought that the ammo cost would be reduced to the same, but looking at it at a realistic standpoint, that simply doesn't make sense.. you're splitting one bullet through three barrels?

I think multiple barrels could return, but they need to have a tradeoff that would make it so it's not a "mandatory" thing like it used to be... Maybe have something to deal with durability reducing quickly.. Or perhaps it takes much longer to load or fire.. Perhaps a laser rifle with two barrels would require 3x or even 4x the energy consumption to fire, even though it only does 2x the damage. Something to set it apart from what it used to be, because as it used to be, it was just that. Mandatory or get out, and the damage output was too high for the lack of tradeoffs.
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Thundercraft

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 02:48:15 AM »

I think multiple barrels could return, but they need to have a tradeoff that would make it so it's not a "mandatory" thing like it used to be... Maybe have something to deal with durability reducing quickly.. Or perhaps it takes much longer to load or fire.. Perhaps a laser rifle with two barrels would require 3x or even 4x the energy consumption to fire, even though it only does 2x the damage. Something to set it apart from what it used to be, because as it used to be, it was just that. Mandatory or get out, and the damage output was too high for the lack of tradeoffs.

Yes, they need balancing. Yes, the damage was too high. And I am okay with tradeoffs for multiple barrels, as long as they're not too extreme. Reducing the accuracy and range as a tradeoff for more damage sounds perfectly reasonable. Even faster reduction of durability. Though too much handicap could be too much.

Thing is, if they eventually have both one-handed and two-handed weapons (guns and swords) - like some players are begging for - the devs need to keep that in mind when balancing. Meaning, with one-handed weapons the character can either weild two weapons or a weapon and a shield. And two-handed weapons should do roughly the same damage as two one-handed weapons. Also, I always thought melee should do more damage than guns, since they're only good for close combat.
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morse

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol[marked]
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2015, 12:08:44 PM »

Laser rifle is back, baby! But why is it green? Previous handle was dark blue.

Maybe you should consider the color-coding for the weaponry: a distinctive color for every weapon type. This will also help to not mismatch the grip and the barrel.

Another question: what will happen to the previous laser handle? You added both rifle and pistol, so that makes the old one what? Or will it be removed?
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Lily

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol[marked]
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2016, 03:13:25 PM »

I want multiple barrels back.

If this is a sandbox game, then we should have more barrels, While those barrels may not necessarily add more damage above max amount it would be nice if they still would add the Shot visually as this allows some more funny/stylish/fancy stuff to do with the editor. maybe then divide the max amount of damage by the amount of barrels used and give every show that divided damage to make a visual hit also be a damaging hit.

Do it for the sake of the voxel sandbox.
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TrashMan

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 06:05:27 AM »

I think that if multiple barrels do return, it can be done in such a way that damage isn't increased so dramatically. There should be major reductions and drawbacks to having more barrels than simply just consuming more ammo at once, because the dps is still there, and ammo can be stacked and replaced. no big deal. That's not enough of a drawback.

There's a reason gattling guns exist - in terms of DPS they blow every other gun out of the water by a massive margin. The caliber is usually smaller though.
There's also a reason why they aren't used everywhere. Real drawbacks - ammo consumption, weight.

Alas, the game doesn't have an ammo carry limit, but it still does have ammo. So, I'd add a high-capacity magazine (holds 200-500 bullets). Designs with multiple barrels would have reduced damage per shot, but rate of fire depends on the number of barrels. In RL a gattling gun easily has 10x the RoF (usually more) Very long reload times too. Reduced movement speed while carrying, no moving while shooting.

Because of this a minigun would eat trough ammo like crazy. A player would go trough 500 bullets really fast.
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Lily

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol[marked]
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2016, 03:45:39 PM »

yes thats about gatlings, nice to know, but we talk about laser, and they work entirely different than conventional ammo.
A laserweapon is just a giant laserpointer. if anything would be needed to increase frequency and such it would be coolant.

butwhen we have laser guns emitting light at the speed of bullets so what?
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Luminaire

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 05:40:19 PM »

Because of this a minigun would eat trough ammo like crazy. A player would go trough 500 bullets really fast.

Yes, and they'd also go through their enemies too fast.
If you want multiple barrels, or a gatling gun, balance would demand the damage be reduced significantly

The same goes with lasers. Because 1, we do not want to return to the old requirement of sticking on as many barrels as possible just to easily meet high damage. It becomes obligatory, rather than design choice, and 2, it is the same as being able to equip and use two normal guns at the same time.

---

If the damage was divided between how many barrels were used, and it still required you to use multiple ammunition or more energy (maybe +10ish% overall damage, to compensate for the cost of use), would you still use multiple barrels? Or would you stick to using one?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:44:09 PM by Luminaire »
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VirtuZz

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2016, 10:57:05 PM »

Because of this a minigun would eat trough ammo like crazy. A player would go trough 500 bullets really fast.

Yes, and they'd also go through their enemies too fast.
If you want multiple barrels, or a gatling gun, balance would demand the damage be reduced significantly

The same goes with lasers. Because 1, we do not want to return to the old requirement of sticking on as many barrels as possible just to easily meet high damage. It becomes obligatory, rather than design choice, and 2, it is the same as being able to equip and use two normal guns at the same time.

---

If the damage was divided between how many barrels were used, and it still required you to use multiple ammunition or more energy (maybe +10ish% overall damage, to compensate for the cost of use), would you still use multiple barrels? Or would you stick to using one?

I actually somewhat agree with this statement - I believe if there is too be a "Design" of somesort to represent let's say- Gatling gun, then perhaps there should be a pre-set for a Gatling gun, rather than us perform said gatling gun on a normal gun (So it eats ammo rather quickly).

As in how we have Laser Rifles, rifles, pistols, etc- There should be a Laser gatling/gatling, etc... And perhaps require something more technical, like component blocks (Super rare, can only be mined off of let's say, ships, or something super rare); To even develop said items said above (i.e. Gatling guns).

Now, whether or not should we have multi-barrel shotguns/rifles/pistols/laser weaponry; I think we should be allowed, at some cost, perhaps ridiculous recoil? Super heavy, move very slow? Hard to steer(Drawback steering)? Lowered accuracy?

Or the easy thing to do, is limit how many barrels maximum (i.e. 2) yes, it won't fit everyone's wants or needs, but rather gives more freedoms to do more (If one wills it).

All aside tho', removing all seriousness to the discussion; This is a game. We have to ask, do want realism? Freedom? or balancing (For pvp, or pve purposes down the road)? That's what we really have to ask ourselves and steer in said direction.

Anywho, did anyone see my Topic  :'(, I can't seem to take screenshots OR do any of the listed following in my other topic- No love for the new guy ;'/
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Thundercraft

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Re: Laser rifle -> Laser pistol
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 03:35:20 AM »

Because of this a minigun would eat trough ammo like crazy. A player would go trough 500 bullets really fast.

They should implement weight penalties as a side effect of heavy weapons, shields, and armor. For one, it's much more realistic.

This is especially important for a minigun: Without any weight penalty, the degree of ammo penalty needed to fairly (balance-wise) offset the massive damage of a minigun would make the gun rather pointless outside of boss fights.

I don't think it's worth the effort to create all those bullets. One would be better off plopping down a few full-sized turrets. They do a lot of damage, act as an extra (armored) target, and they have unlimited ammo. So why would anyone prefer to use an ammo-gobbling minigun, instead (aside from the 'cool factor')?

For a similar reason, it's not worth using those "Sentry" turrets (type 01 or 02). They consume ammo like crazy. And to replace bullets, one must mine a lot of copper and sulfur and harvest a bunch of wood and animal fat. (See the Turrets & Bullets: Way Too Resource Intensive thread for details.)

Besides, some players would complain that such a minigun makes boss fights too easy.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 11:35:16 PM by Thundercraft »
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