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Planet Explorers Released!

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Author Topic: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]  (Read 7291 times)

yarnevk

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2015, 03:31:44 PM »

The Eve Online devs have made it work and Ill paraphrase their take on the issue when I say "They'll get over it" 

Over on the ESO forums someone just linked to steams now playing and been playing charts.   ESO is the top of the MMORPG list (after the FPS games).  Eve Online and DarkFall way way way down the list, because they are not even remotely causal games when the devs say F' them.   There is no denial that casualization make money and very very few casuals will upgrade themselves into old school harder play.

At least with Planet Explorers in single player you can play under your own ruleset using simple willpower that knows these rules make for better play.  It just needs such rules in the multiverse to keep out those who do not want to play by your rules.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 03:37:38 PM by yarnevk »
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Lily

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2015, 03:45:20 PM »

But unified singleplayer will not make the game survive long.

Games that survive long are multiplayer games or games hat are modable.
Getting settings into the gamemodes to differ them will give PE a load of replayability potential.

casual makes money, but not necessarily good games. Just played a bit WoW on my gf's PC yesterday, got bored out after a short time already, all so casualised and simplified. It's boring.
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Luminaire

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2015, 05:28:51 PM »


and why? because hell has better items and people wanted that better items, that's the only reason. has anyone ever complained about Halo hardest difficulty being to hard? No one really cared because there was nothing special to get from except personal challenge.

And this again just proofes: people want the best but not really take the effort. They can't be happy with less than the best. If that part of diablo would no have better items, no one would would care about it at all except those who want it "hard". Some games have "iron man" modes, yet I hardly ever tried these modes, because from normal gameplay I have not found any game where I would expect this mode to work properly, since most games have to many random bugs giving you an unsatisfying end sooner or later.


Actually that is not why. People only cared about the items strictly because they were required to complete the inferno difficulty. It was the fact that the difficulty existed itself that was the problem. It was litterally driven by people's "need to complete". Not the items themselves. I was a dedicated player to D3 at launch and for a long while and that was all over the forum. People feeling that since it was part of the game, it had to be completable, disregarding the fact that it was just there for the challenge... and you're incorrect when you say "no one would care if it was just for the challenge". as that was the other side of players trying to defend the difficulty of inferno. They liked the challenge and understood why it was there. It was just the casual players that felt jipped that they "couldn't complete the game".
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Luminaire

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2015, 05:31:11 PM »


Over on the ESO forums someone just linked to steams now playing and been playing charts.   ESO is the top of the MMORPG list (after the FPS games).  Eve Online and DarkFall way way way down the list, because they are not even remotely causal games when the devs say F' them.   There is no denial that casualization make money and very very few casuals will upgrade themselves into old school harder play.


Here's a major problem with that chart:
EVE's majority of the playerbase does not play on steam. EVE was added to steam and is hardly even supported by it. The main client is easier to use and much more convenient. It allows you access to the test servers aswell as dual-boxing. The steam client does not, so the more dedicated players will not use it on steam. Steamcharts only tracks the players playing through STEAM... but in reality, EVE usually has about 12k-45k people logged in at any time.
Here's your comparison:


Steam charts on the left, actual people logged in displayed on the right. (Yes, that is currently logged in, NOT how many players there are in grand total.)

steamcharts says 1.3k. EVE actual players is 31k. See the difference?

Eve was actually topped at having the largest consecutive online playerbase of any game.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 05:45:26 PM by Luminaire »
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yarnevk

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2015, 02:02:26 AM »

Of course extrapolating the chart presumes every game has the same ratio of steam/non-steam players, which will depend on when they got onto steam.   But I can tell you why I do not play PVP games like darkfall and eve online, they attract the type of player I do not like.  I like PVE cooperative survival ironman an even permadeath play, but I would prefer to play by myself rather than get shot at naked by sociapaths.   That is just me, but that is why I think successful games need multiverse rulesets, if it is just geographical zones then I do think the completionists get in the way of allowing the rulesets to be taken all the way to satisfying lots of playstyles rather than lowest common denominator.

Sure games say now they go free to play they will reserve the in-game grind for the most valuable items - until those players stop paying for the game and the suits decide to put them on the store to make money.   Every MMO ends up the same, buy your way to elite raider level and get your elite gear on the store, skip the lower level grind.  It happened to DDO, it will happen to ESO. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 02:08:34 AM by yarnevk »
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Lily

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2015, 08:26:28 AM »

Eve was actually topped at having the largest consecutive online playerbase of any game.

because ist a freaking no Lifers game :P

I want to no life Wurm again :/ I just wish I could no Life.
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Luminaire

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2015, 10:20:59 AM »

Eve was actually topped at having the largest consecutive online playerbase of any game.

because ist a freaking no Lifers game :P

I want to no life Wurm again :/ I just wish I could no Life.

I no-life not by choice. Which is probably why i'm heavily against casualization.. Casualized games are boring and get old fast for me.
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Lily

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2015, 11:08:08 AM »

Nolifing is just not meaning not casualised.

No-lifing can also just be brain dead low challange but massive time consumption.

Most games have "hard challanges with high rewards, hidden behind the No-Life wall. So if youc an't spent X time every day to do broing brainless Y you cna not even participate in said challanges, and this sucks, because this is not what I think games should be about. Casualising should mean someone with less time should be able to reach the same. yet it should not mean to get this "easily". But most stuff is just effort = time.  And thats what kills a lot games.
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DirtyBird

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Re: What does Pathea think about casualisation.[marked]
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2016, 03:48:38 AM »

i know this Topic is old but like me there are several people that are new or even fairly new to the game. And would like to say a couple of things on PVP and PVE on games in general. ( Note i'm Disabled have a hard time even doing PVP anymore which is the reason i do mostly PVE )

I have run DayZ Servers and even had my own for a time, Have run and Admined in many games over the years, And done pro Beta testing in a few games, and done extensive modding to, well before my heart attack it slowed me down a bit.

I play Warframe and did so for a year and a half ( I still go back every now and then, have 2 accounts ) They have a feature which differs greatly among games that should be a normal game mode for in game on servers. You have to portal to the  PVP Area or you can just play on the normal planets (Maps) of which there are many each has many missions to complete along with a story line that is unfolding. Much like PE is

When i say portal in your ship in the pilots cabin there is a kiosk that you can go to and join those maps or areas in the game. the system is set up so you get people that are more to your level of playing, you don't go in naked and level 1 against a level 21. the challenges are the same. weapons and achievements rank as you do. Weapons and Warframes are modifiable using in-game mods that you get or find doing missions. Giving the player a chance to gain XP in that area and a challenge in the game to complete.

PVE on the other hand is still a challenge and you also have mastery ranks to complete after you have made the necessary XP. Weapons in the game you can mod but only within game mods that are like cards that will add some things to a weapon and there are lots of many types of weapons in the game. You don't lose or gain anything from being away from the game. though you will find it has a lot of grind to obtain a weapon or some item in the game. The Dev's are very active and the game has a live dev team that does talk through feeds through twitter chat and live feeds and lets people know the new things like fix's and improvements, weapons Frames that are being introduced to the game and other things that are going on in the game it is now a world wide game and has reach a few million people now. i have friends all over the world i have played with and even taught a few how to play the game.

The grind is what was getting to me so if a game is to grindy you cause player Burnout even though that player loves the game. you only get so many revives till you get back to your ship then it is refreshed.

I have a level 20 char. ( of which i could have leveled to 21 at anytime in the last 6 months just don't care to ) i have also a lvl 12 char.

They have just introduced a Level 22 into the game. also the game is in Beta. Will not make it out of Beta till Level 30 as that will be the top Mastery rank you will be able to attain in the game. All of this is put up front for the player so he knows what he is getting into.
 
The revives i think is done right in the game it is limited. when revived you come back with full health and can complete the game mission if you use your brains to play with. true the AI in the game are more advanced then in PE. And many of the functions in the game and the have a large set of teams that work on the game, it is Free to play and you can't buy your way through it. though you can buy equipment and weapons , frames and such. The game is built on the mastery system of which you cannot buy your way through, very well thought out.

It has a open chat system in the game with all areas tabbed and separate like trading , recruiting, general chat and the like. Though i generally use a Team Speak or Discord to chat with my friends and who ever is in my group.

It takes strategy and a little bit if gall to do most missions.

Just wished to have seen some of this type of game play in PEs story line. Like with Lao and the 3 bears. ok i have a challenge now these guys out weight me and shoot fire and fire balls. can rake me down. Lao says to divert the bears while he rescues the survivors they are holding. ( Wait so now I'm just bear meat, now wasn't i suppose to be the unsung hero here ) a little team work here is needed with lao and the 3 bears.

 You can't run faster then the bears they can catch you, So no just leading them off. and circling around to come back. Grenades are basically useless as they don't hardly damage them, does make a nice hole in the ground though. You can fall into those and the bear will get you.Your gun is really useless against them does so little damage it's funny. rifle is a joke. And they have cut out multi muzzle weapons in the game so wondering about the double barrel shot gun is that also really a single barrel. you can't kill anything with a axe now only a tree or plants. Really...... Axes are very deadly weapons in the RL world. and those bears don't have Armour. Armored targets should take a lot of hits, not unarmored. Oh of course these are made on earth right so the ISC sends you to explore and colonize a planet with pea poppers and a wooden sword yeah thats a plan. What i thought when i dealt with the three bears and the baby bear is a real threat hehehe. i won't mess with their porridge or sleep in their beds don't worry about that.

Ok really the mission is easy if you have the time to deduce it out ( First time players generally just run in thinking they are conan ) but once you reach the marked area on the map lao just takes off down in with the bears to rescue those lost souls down there. You have a couple of turrets you can set out, the grenades are still useless, Have found then useless most anywhere in the game really so i don't even bother to carry them. especially against the Kronos. Really trying to kill a Flying Kronos ( Rat Dragon with a birds head, want one for a pet ) with a Grenade is just wrong. seems like our warrior Chen needs to go back to training. He should give you a rifle. Not the grenades script. and 5 grenades.  But that is another story hehehe.

Really this Mission is ok if you could access the shop that Lao has, to get the script for steel.( The steel sword is very effective) Once you accept the mission you can no longer access his shop or even talk to him till after you have defeated the 3 bears. ( You can have their porridge and sleep in their beds. Oops no they have cousins or revives them selves ) and i even skinned them, boy are they going to be upset with me. Have watched this on Vids on Youtube to, can be really funny.

You use to be able to talk to them and access the shop.

These are examples of things in the missions that need a bit more work but as for causlation yes it is needed in the game but different game modes will also be need and you have several styles of game play. Thats a lot of work for coders, animators, modelers and the like. So glad to be in on this game this early.

I remember when games came out that didn't need to be patched and after 2000 that all changed now they think that the person who pays for that game should be the tester and they just release a game to get your moneys, some games aren't even playable as some of the fiascos of late have shown. Greed ....Greed Never changes! oh wait sorry that was suppose to be War.... War never changes just something from Fallout i was remembering. i play all those games with the knowledge that they will be Buggy. It's just The Bethesda way of making great games, wait 1 and 2 weren't buggy what the .... ok some one is getting greedy at Bethesda to. And the player patches seem to be the best though have noticed that they do take those patches and make them their own. They can do that according to the Eula. it is their game after all they just let you borrow it. though you had to pay to borrow it. Casualization is a part of the game to and works well. a player can go in Guns blazing and a knife in their teeth with a grenade hanging off their neck, or use some strategy to take out the enemy or even stealth their way through.  You can play it as slow as you like or as fast as you like. Though it is Single Player.

A Game i did beta testing for was Black Prophecy, from closed Alpha till release and on all their Servers. Was a space fighting game. Did very well till they had ( wait can't tell you the publishers name sorry ) though the publisher was the reason they went under. the publisher tried to change the game 180 degree's yep if you get one they can tell the dev's what they want and what to change and can close the game if they so chose. They took a space fighting game and tried to make it a Eve clone. Failed. It was fine in the original genre. i knew people that had sunk a 1000 or more a month into that game, just for some cosmetic's for their ship. ( You could NOT buy your way to better and higher equipment then you could find in the game not spending one dime ) You could do both Casual Gaming but the game was more PVP and ai PVE then anything and was glorious in it's graphic's, and didn't take a beast of a system to run it either, till the publisher got a hold of it. Many a good game has washed down the river because of publishers. They even had a email system in their chat was a great game. And a great Clan system.

Well was doing a bit of rambling here and there sorry must be my age. anyway to make a long story shorter. I understand the revives in the game they are needed at this point in the game. I play the story line version of the game both the Steam and non Steam. (I have done exploring in RL for a few years so know about what hardship is and trying to Survive on what you can find really is.) You can take the time you need in this game to complete missions though the( Act into the woods: needs a bit of tweaking. You should be able to take out the adversary but he is invulnerable to damage it seems.) Revives should be limited though as to how many you can have at a time.

And have seen were people talk about game saves, the save system in the game is way to short as you have to delete saves to make a new one after 20. Have done that and came back to places i had ladders, steps, turrets, and lights and other assets they were all gone, Just the base building was there. All the equipment was gone. You should have a separate save system in place for the different aspects of the game such as build or adventure and the like not all in one folder. But a Game save folder with folders for each aspect of the game. Nothing like coming back to the story line and it starts you way back, because you have to use a hard save to get back in. I spent 2 RL days making a Colony base only to have to do it again. I play 8 to 10 hrs at a stretch.  It's all in the details remember that. I was trying to build a base building and use the Biso system to save it. came back and to play, the auto save only saved the build session. it's got 3 auto saves and they were all the same build save. Really. I never left the build area, so why would it do all three auto saves of the same thing.  Then had to go and rebuild it all from scratch again. as the last hard save was at the martian camp,

Another thing that baffles me is the Colony Core, it's foot print is huge now, you have to jump to even get on it. and blinks all the time showing a shuttle coming in. I think the emergency is over a long time ago. all the shuttles are grounded. Really just a pic of the Continent or planet or planets on the screen would have been enough, Though love the feature to be able to trun off the graphic's of the sphere and the lines from the power center it also saves on your systems resources. Though i figure by the time they are done with this game it will take a beastly machine to play it. unless they can get the 64 bit version up and going.

well getting all over the board here hehehehe.
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