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Author Topic: Polishing tricks tutorial[marked]  (Read 8140 times)

XxIcarusxx

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Polishing tricks tutorial[marked]
« on: October 27, 2014, 12:56:40 PM »

Here some Tips and tricks about voxel property who could help for polishing purpose your iso. These exemples are basics but they can be use diffrently for making more complicated things.
(Sorry for my poor english and if there is a lack of explanation. Any comment/correction are welcome)

[Triangle and cone properties]

 -Even if they don't have the same property, using the cone-shaped tool for modelling will get a softer result than the triangle-shaped tool. Make them side by side of 1 voxel width. However with this method you should delete the useless parts, it will depending of the result you want.



 -Triangle tilted side is flat only if is Height and Length are equal [H = L] or if the Height or Length are [(3 x X)+1] and ther other [X]. But these are 3 specific cases.



 -For making sharp edge you could finish it with the cone-shaped tool. (But you won't get a flat tilted side if you only use flat cone, it is explain just after.)



 -Using the previous cone shaped tool for flat tilted surface will look carved. But should should get better result by using the cone diameter and using the selected voxel + [Shift + Alt Arrows/Alt/Espace] command. Here the differences between using triangle, flat cone and cone diameter with the [Shift+Arrow] command.



The Cylinder-shaped tool could be use as the Cone-shaped tool method for making form who are not sphere or oval but it request a line as guide or the reference plane for starting each cylinders. This take a big working place so be sure to make it first of work in a safe area and use the mirroring tool. I think it could be used for making complicated specific boat hull in particular. (Notice that the spherical tool don't work well for this use.)




[Manual voxel modeling]

 - Select one voxel and use the right panel to modify it. If you use the shift command, the extruded voxels will keep the same properties.  Material with texture lines could be use as a ruler. A great help for advanced manual voxel volume modeling.



[Cut the texture fusion between voxels]

 - Voxel meshing can be cut for making a break between different voxels area (the actuel editor fuse them when they are at the same level) but request to use voxel volume editor like this and can be use for a lot o things, by different way. It could help for making sharp paint.

   100 l 100 l 100 l  -2  l  -2  l  -2
   100 l 100 l 100 l 100 l 100 l 100
                       ^
             The cut is here



[Human size chart in create mode] MAJ. April 17, 2015

Some players ask for it so here are the sizes for human male standing (bald) in create mode.
I don't know if someone already do it, but in every cases here it is.

Vehicle small: 53.5 voxels high
Vehicle large: 18.5 voxels high (count ~19 with hair)

Aircraft Helicopter: 18.5 voxels high
Aircraft Battleship: 9 voxels high

Ship: 18.5 voxels high

Rough Tiny object: 1 tiny, just under the belt. 2 tiny, 9 voxels higher than the top of the head so 91. (2x Fine)
Rough Small object: 37 voxels high (2x Fine)
Rough Large object: 18.5 voxels high (2x Fine)

I hope this will help some creators a little more in their task ;) .

[Extrude voxels (avanced): slopes] MAJ. April 26, 2015



I use this method since few days and I progress more quickly than before, for sure.  (No need to move everywhere like with the previous mirroring method).  You should just understand a method like this is just for keeping  the flat aspect of the slope. So for polishing purpose. I generally use this with cone's diameter in little area (Because the cone diameter give the better render).

Slopes are composed of 2 layers so their thickness is 2 voxels. The inside consists of positive voxels when the outside is composed of negative voxels. This work for simple curves too xd.



The inside consists of positive voxels when the outside is composed of negative voxels. This work for simple curves too.

You just have to select voxels and use shift+arrows / alt / espace keys to extrude them.

Firstly the positive ones and as many time you need to have the length you want (depending of the movement you will need to erase a previous process like below).
Secondly the negatives ones.

Here an exemple, but the process could not be the same depending of the result you will reach:

1.Select positive voxels.


2.Shift + down arrow


3.and Shift + Alt arrow (2 and 3 can be repeat as many time as you need and can be reversed if the inside of the slope has been emptied)


4.Delete the useless voxels (4 can be skip if you have emptied the inside of the slope and reversed 2 and 3 -> 3 and 2)


5.Select negatives voxels


6.Shift + down arrow


7.Shift + Alt arrow (6 and 7 can be repeat as many time as you need)


Finished


[Inside Slopes and Curves: How it's work] MAJ. April 27, 2015

If the curves have 2 voxels thickness, the inside have 2 voxels thickness as well. So if you on the front you have a -X voxel and behind a +Y voxel on the other side you will have a -Y voxel and behind a +X voxel. So 4 voxels  --> -X/Y/X/-Y <--

If the back follow the front it will be:
             
                 Front
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X
 Y  Y Y  Y Y Y  Y -X-X-X-X-X-X
 X  X X X X X X   Y Y  Y Y  Y Y
-Y -Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-Y   X X X X  X X
                      -Y-Y-Y -Y-Y-Y
                 Back

The inside will be a reduced version of the outside. So it is not necessary or possible in smallest area.

!Keep in mind that a curve or a slope made by using a sphere/cone/cylinder shaped tool can't be reproduced exactly because they are smoothed but voxel's texture/bump can easily hide the aspect of defects and bumps which could appear. So no flat surface on reproduced curves!



Here a trick, If you have planed to make a canopy or a sharp front, don't be centered with the default mirror position. The center should be 1 voxel and not 2 voxels because the front couldn't be sharp. Move the mirror (X) in consequence.

Ruler for decal 512x512 MAJ. April 17, 2015

Here a ruler decal in pixel I have made for helping guys who want to make a custom decals who can match with the form of their iso. For making canopy frame, cover specific area or anything else: http://www.mediafire.com/download/6u1uuk3fu4f2zjz/Pixrul.png




[ More flat sphere and flat cone properties ]

Unlike cylinder and triangle they create more voxels when they are near them, and give a render more smooth.

You can obtain some forms that you can't create with actual ingame tools if you stack up them by moving them of more than 1 voxel. However for flat cone the general aspect will depend of the quality of the slope, most of the time you'll get something lightly undulating and it need several tries to get a flat cone with a better render (note Height x Wide somewhere to possibly re-use it later). If you can't find a good render, try with bigger HxW or increase ancle and remember you can move it anywhere with the mirroring option. Unfortunatly ou can't get the same result directly by using ingame tools.

- Cylender and flat sphere tool stacked with size -2m -4 and -6 (3 layers). You can't really see here but the result will be better with higher diameter and flat sphere tool if the the angle is under 45°. If it is bigger than 45° you can use cone tool but under 45° it will quickly lost in quality.



- Triangle and flat sphere tool stacked moved by +1, +2 and +3 voxels (3 layers). Better result if you use higher HxW than the one you plan to do because the extremities will be irregular.



Some exemples:





- Corner like this can be more sharp by using the tool voxel volume tool and voxels (0 volume). But it work only on the apparent side where voxels (0). Unfortunatly it don t work if juxtaposed sides have a voxel 0 layer





Exemple:



[Caution] Voxels with volume 0 will create a visual bug issue from far distance if there are not positive voxels behind them.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 06:01:03 PM by XxIcarusxx »
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Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 02:58:25 PM »

XxIcarusxX = Vincent ?!  :o

PS: Anyway, i don't now why, but i never use the cone tool.
I just make some try now, and.. ok it open more possibility to build iso's .
Thank for this Tuto ;)

PPS: i don't believe that i never use this tool's  :-X

« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 04:28:44 PM by Pastaga »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 05:49:15 PM »

Yes XxIcarusxX = Vincent  ;)

Me too, I lost a lot of time to to changing thousands of voxels volumes one by one.

I think a future copy / paste selected voxels command should be a great improvement in creation éditor, for saving time like the Shift+ command.

Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 06:30:53 PM »

I am fan of your ship in progress. I recognize you by the picture you post in this thread .  :P

I actually do something ... heuuu , i don't now where i go and what i get of it .
But i train with the cone tool  ;D



"I think a future copy / paste selected voxels command should be a great improvement in creation éditor, for saving time like the Shift+ command."
Functions like in Blender or real 3D editor will be great, but it's already nice for a game  ;)

It's turning strange  ::)
So, yes for the copy / paste, i want your cockpit !  ;D

« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 07:49:09 PM by Pastaga »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 09:48:47 PM »

heuuu , i don't now where i go and what i get of it .
At the beginning I have a little idea but right now I feel the same way than you lol.

So, yes for the copy / paste, i want your cockpit !  ;D
Unfortunatly ven if it looked cool, I needed  to shape it again because of meshing issues. I think it is a very interesting idea to copy paste from another iso, even for me because it allow make a backup of the iso and replace voxels parts or duplicate them or making things more complicated 


Here a picture of it. It isn't finished because I'm a little out of it for the moment so it is not finished yet because I spend most of my summer holiday on it Xp

I think I have learn most of my modeling skills on this one but it took a huge amount of time because for a lot of technical reasons, tries, improvements, modifications or stupid things like remodeling the triangle-shaped parts with the cone-shaped tools before knowing how to use mirroring and breaking a lot of things :x . And now I know that making a customized decal like the front one is very annoying if it is not be graduated...


(Why should I use several basic orange 128x128 decals of 150 ko each when I can have the same result with a 1x1 less than 1ko decals => it reduce iso size and memory issues but not GPU issues :p ) 

If I truth my playing time, I have invest at least 300 hours on it. But now I will not make the same errors twice. (And I don't want to lose more time on turret until the turret create mode release so it will stay like this until this date.)

With this I have tried to make a material system who could replace a decal but it is not perfect and there some issues when mirroring or when I use it on curved things. It is more like a puzzle or a game in the game for knowing if it match or not. Less accurate, however that allow diffuse bump system, not like the decal system.

And some works on cockpit window with HD and LD material Bump. LD hide easily meshing issues on spherical things that HD can't hide.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 10:11:00 AM by XxIcarusxx »
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Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 06:39:13 AM »

I don't really get what you mean by this ?

(Why should I use several basic orange 128x128 decals of 150 ko each when I can have the same result with a 1x1 less than 1ko decals => it reduce iso size and memory issues but not GPU issues :p ) 



You did the decal for the cockpit ?! wow, so 300 hours IG and 150 hours on the paint soft to make the decal feet the iso ?  ;D

HO, by the way, here a souvenir of your ship in case you lost (again) all your save  ::)



I did this fast this morning, drinking my coffee .  ;)

PS:
Ok , now i get what you said about copy in the tuto . It's a litle bit complicate for advanced frame, but it work not so bad .



And for where i go with this thing, i will try to do an Egyptian star fighter (Stargate like), the pyramidal shape, paint and decal will make something good..... or not  ???

« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 08:51:46 AM by Pastaga »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 08:34:36 PM »

I'm not really skilled with painting software, it took me a bunch of time to make it. I used Paint to make it and ajusting it because I don't know if paint allow me to work pixel by pixel. Ajusting it me took a lot of time. Gimp is difficult to use for me (I only know the gradation and the tranparent tools).

I got an interesting reflecting effect by error but I can't reproduce it because when I try to select the area where it is, there is nothing to select °_° (GIMP)

Without decal


With decal (it not just make it luminous but I'm not sure if it can be notice the reflect on the picture. )


I really don't know when Pathea will add glass material but it could be a good alternative before it's release.


And thanks for my new walpaper Pastaga, I love it ;D

I will waiting to see your iso finished :) it look already cool.

Edit: I think I will use the same screenshot website as you because mine suck. Pictures lost in quality Xp. And yourse have interesting function :)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:39:48 PM by XxIcarusxx »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial.
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2014, 12:06:59 PM »

I tried to improve this tutorial by making more understandable pictures and explanations but I'm not sure of it :p Maybe help could be interesting.  I think I have forgot some tricks who are not in the Matthuas tutorial too :/ I will add this when I wiil remenber them.

I corrected some big errors and false shift command too, sorry xp.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:44:09 PM by XxIcarusxx »
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Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2014, 03:49:07 PM »

I like how the tutorial get .. NJ.

I stop my strange egyptian ship.
It was only for practicing, and i don't feel to go on with it .
http://www.mediafire.com/download/nvn6dqdqubn5dxw/Project_X4.vciso


One i really love to do is the A61 Mantis .

But i am not sure to ave the skill yet for this one  ???

XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 07:28:14 AM »

For sure A61 Mantis looka bunch more complicated than a UT47 Kodiak.

Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 07:19:58 AM »

Your tuto getting very nice . GJ .
That a good help to progress in PE editor.
And i want my black Mantis anyway  ;D

Is pretty hard to do, but i try to do something correct.

Taking form, slowly....
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:17:33 PM by Pastaga »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »

Good job. It look in a good way :)

Pastaga

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2014, 08:01:37 PM »

Decal is your friend !  ;D



Take me more time to do the decal that to do the Ship !



But it's taking good way i think.
I will finally get my Mantis  ;)

Now i got some trouble with the decals order, but it's getting correct.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 09:36:56 PM by Pastaga »
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XxIcarusxx

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2014, 09:26:49 AM »

You've done a good job, there is a bunch of work with decals too :) .

A61 Mantis look softer than mine with decals, I have some more littles frames rate issues when I look the front of my dropship with some other isos because my little laptop :p .  I used 5 decals because I wanted to keep the transparency reflect effect but only 3 are really necessary.


Another thing, cone tool make meshing issue due to mirroring softer than with triangle tool, but working with it could be complicated without pratice.


Note: Because the Holiday are ended I can't really be on PE due to my studes and I haven't finished my iso yet :x

loops

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Re: Polishing tricks tutorial
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 11:21:51 PM »

Thanks a lot for your tutorial. You've made very nice shapes in your creations. Congratulations.

Pastaga, XxIcarusxx, I can't figure how you made that kind of slop in the capture below :



This slope seems to be made with an unavailable rotation increment in the slope tool. Did you used a feathering substraction ?
Could you give an explanation please ?
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